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Mailbag: Trading In A Keeper League

Keepers, Trading

We’re going to try to take questions by e-mail on a weekly basis. If you have questions, please send them to editor@fantasyballjunkie.com.

Today’s question comes from reader C.G.


“I am in is a 15 team, 6 category (OBP & QS added to standard 5×5), keeper league. 7 keepers, 2 rookie keepers. You can only keep a player 1 year after drafting year. Rookies you can keep 2 years. I have an offer where I give Price (rookie, so 2009 + 2010 season) and Scherzer (non rookie) for a 3rd round pick (I need early picks…lost some last year). Would I be selling short by doing this deal, or is it taking advantage of two over-hyped young arms.? In a 15-team keeper league, Price would probably go around the 7th-8th round, Scherzer around the 10th.”

C.G. provides good context for an answer, but his analysis is not 100% complete quite yet.

The main bit of missing info is whom he’d keep as his rookie keeper in the absence of David Price and who he’d keep instead of Max Scherzer. When it comes to trades that entail shuffling keeper lists, one of the essential ingredients of good analysis is figuring out whether the upgrades are worth the downgrades. C.G. will be giving up Price and Scherzer, but he’ll also be opening up two keeper slots for ??

That said, if C.G is trading the values of essentially a 7th round pick and a 10th round pick in return for a 3rd round pick, he seems to be getting net positive value. Especially if he’s able to use those two new open slots on other players, who may be inferior to Price and Scherzer, but would mitigate the loss of their value. Trading “up,” by packaging two or more commodities for one, is usually a good idea. This consolidates value at the top. It’s much easier to replace value at the bottom, especially in leagues that allow transactional flexibility.

As for the hype on Price and Scherzer, they probably deserve the buzz. Both are going to be excellent pitchers in the majors. But it’s wise to not get too attached to upside when considering keeper deals. Especially on the pitching end. The biggest difference at the moment between pitchers like Price and Scherzer and those like Thomas Hanson and Neftali Feliz is not skill, but rather opportunity. That edge will diminish as the season progresses. By 2010, the order of valuation on these pitchers may look quite different. Just ask Phil Hughes.

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5 Comments

5 Comments

  1. dom_mason  •  Feb 3, 2009 @1:22 pm

    One problem I’ve seen in my keeper league is the overvaluing of your own players, especially those who you got before they were superstars and watched them grow into great players. If you drafted Kinsler in 2006 and stayed with him through the up and down times (which there were many) you want to be rewarded, right? Personally, I’ll trade anyone on my roster if it makes my team better, fantasy baseball is about stats, not player…right?

    So how should I approach other owners about their players, when I get a one word response “untouchable”?

    How can I show them that the two or three players I’m offering will make thier “team” better than keeping this one stud and two scrubs?

  2. admin  •  Feb 3, 2009 @1:28 pm

    That’s a fantastic question. I’m going to devote a blog post to this topic. Check back tomorrow for an answer.

  3. dom_mason  •  Feb 3, 2009 @1:38 pm

    C.G.,

    Who do you think will be available in the 3rd Round? (Or at least what type of player?) And is it a high 3rd or low 3rd round pick? I’d add that thought (value) in with what they said in this post about who would you replace Price and Scherez with.

    Keeper leagues are hard because you have to anticipate who will be kept, I got screwed one year because I thought there would be a lot of youg pitchers available so I dropped some. Everyone kept thiers! And since they weren’t going to let me get value, they kept taking the good ones as reservce spots, put me in a bad spot…

  4. docno1  •  Feb 3, 2009 @2:31 pm

    CG here … This is a tough issue to deal with in keeper leagues, and I’m glad to discuss it with people who think about it. Of course it was tough to give up Price and Scherzer. My replacement rookie keeper (for Price) will probably be Adam Miller (other option is McCutchen, but I think he is still too far away from being a fantasy asset … and my #1 rookie keeper is Weiters :) ). Miller should be in the CLE relief squad, and if he comes through healthy this year he could be a stud starter in 2010. Big IF. Big upside. The only reason he is not still in the top 10 prospects is injury history. He could wash out. He could be Price-lite.
    My replacement keeper for Scherzer is either Chris Young (P) or Marmol. Young should put up Scherzer’s stats with less K’s, better WHIP, but playing for a hard team to score W’s. Marmol is a stud with a closing job on a winning team, gives great stats across the board and could approach K-Rod stats at a lower cost. A closer keeper in this format though?
    As for who would be available in round 3? It is a late pick (approx. #45), so there should either be another good young starter (Gallardo, Felix), a top catcher (Martinez could fall that late), or a still decent SS. In this league, position scarcity is a prime factor. Though giving up Price for another good starter seems stupid, so I will target the best position player available. It’s hard to say who that would be … anywhere between a 12-team round 3 (Morneau, Abreu) and round 6 (Cano, Bay). Very hard to predict.

  5. dom_mason  •  Feb 4, 2009 @6:13 am

    Marmol and a 3rd for Scherzer and Price looks fair… but who wants to do a fair trade? What will he offer for just Scherzer? What rookie can he give you with the 3rd for Scherzer and Price? My personal opinion is that Marmol is better than Scherzer (had him last year and loved him, just don’t think he’ll live up to the hype). I’m not buying the hype of Price, there is just to much of it. It will be hard for him to live up to what people think he can do, a lot of pressure on a young kid. Miller nad McCutchen are ok, but there are stud “can’t miss” SP and OF prospects every years, you may be able to do better than them.

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    Fantasy Ball Junkie is a blog for advanced fantasy baseball enthusiasts who want to get an edge on competition. The site focuses on strategy, player evaluation, transactional analysis, bargaining theory, and all the skills integral to having a successful season. I can be reached with tips, requests, or abuse at editor@fantasyballjunkie.com

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